Episode 67: Digital Evidence Collection with Robert Fried
In 2022, is there any investigation that will not benefit from digital evidence collection? Our guest this week, Robert Fried, is a digital forensics expert who discusses the answer to this question with Leah in addition to other digital evidence collection questions.
Robert Fried is a seasoned expert and industry thought leader with over 20 years of experience in data collection and forensic investigations. As Senior Vice President and Global Head of Sandline’s Forensics and Investigations practice, he leads day-to-day operations and oversees the forensic services offered to clients, including data collection, forensic analysis, expert testimony, and forensic consultation. Previously, he has held senior-level positions in digital forensic practices at global professional services firms and worked as a computer crime specialist at the National White Collar Crime Center. He has developed and instructed computer forensics and investigative training courses for federal, state, and local law enforcement agencies.
Robert holds a BS and MS in Forensic Science and certificates in Law Enforcement Science, Computer Forensic Investigation, and Information Protection and Security from the University of New Haven. He serves on the Board of Advisors for the Master’s in Investigations program at the University of New Haven and the Global Advisory Board for EC-Council’s Computer Hacking Forensic Investigator (C|HFI) certification. Robert is a licensed professional investigator in Michigan and a licensed private investigator in New York. He is a frequent speaker at industry events, has been a guest on industry podcasts, and has been published in several professional publications. He has also authored the book Forensic Data Collections 2.0: The Guide for Defensible & Efficient Processes and contributes to PI Magazine, where he created the CyberSleuthing department and shares insightful content on topics relating to digital forensics, eDiscovery, data privacy, and cybersecurity.
RESOURCES MENTIONED IN TODAY’S EPISODE
Order Robert’s new book Forensic Data Collections 2.0: The Guide for Defensible & Efficient Processes on Amazon.
CONNECT WITH GUEST: ROBERT FRIED
LinkedIn: @RobertFried
Website: www.forensicsbook.com
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Transcript
Leah Wietholter:
Hi, I'm Leah Wietholter, and this is The Investigation Game Podcast. Welcome to The Investigation Game Podcast. I'm Leah Wietholter, CEO of Workman Forensics in Tulsa, Oklahoma. Joining me today is Robert Fried. Robert is a seasoned expert and industry thought leader with over 20 years of experience in data collection and forensic investigations. As senior vice president and global head of Sandline's Forensics, an investigations practice, he leads day-to-day operations and oversees the forensic services offered to clients, including data collection, forensic analysis, expert testimony, and forensic consultation.
Leah Wietholter:
Previously, he has held senior-level positions in digital forensic practices at global professional services firms and worked as a computer crime specialist at the National White Collar Crime Center. He has developed and instructed computer forensics and investigative training courses for federal, state and local law enforcement agencies. Robert holds degrees in forensic science and certificates in law enforcement science, computer forensic investigation, and information protection and security from the University of New Haven. He serves on the board of advisors for the Master's in Investigations Program at the University of New Haven and the Global Advisory Board for EC Council's Computer Hacking Forensic Investigator Certification.
Leah Wietholter:
Robert is a licensed private investigator in Michigan and a licensed private investigator in New York. He's a frequent speaker at industry events, has been a guest on industry podcast, and has been published in several professional publications. He has also authored the book Forensic Data Collections 2.0: The Guide for Defensible and Efficient Processes, and contributes to PI Magazine, where he created the cyber-sleuthing department and shares insightful content on topics related to digital forensics, e-discovery, data privacy, and cybersecurity. Thank you for joining me today, Rob.
Robert Fried:
Yeah. Well, first off, thank you very much for having me on the show today. I'm really thrilled to be here. In terms of my background, I have truly an interesting background. I come from the academic side. When I got out of the University of New Haven with a Bachelor's and a Master's of Forensics, the first thing that I wanted to do was essentially become certified in the field to show my knowledge level and really my passion within the field and commitment to the field, so I started to look to the different avenues of the certifications that are out there, and I attained about three or four of them once I kind of got really familiar with the specific tools and software.
Robert Fried:
I became a PI back in, I believe, 2017, if I'm not mistaken. At that time, it was really about continuing to build a good understanding of the investigation aspect of the cases I was working on. My background is in forensic science. I am familiar with forensic tools, but in terms of actually running an investigation, showing competency, I thought that was going to be a great way to build my rapport with my existing clients, my new clients, to show that I really understood how to navigate and formulate the workflows necessary for an investigation, and to be licensed to do it.
Robert Fried:
There was also a big push in the forensic space in different states, if you're familiar, with forensic practitioners having licenses. The first one I got was Michigan. I actually had a bit of a challenge in New York because of the criteria in New York, but I went before the administrative judge and I proved my case. I said, "I'm supervising PIs in different states, although I'm in New York. I'd like to kind of have my experience reflected there." They actually listened to my case and I won the motion and I'm very proud to have that license.
Leah Wietholter:
Yeah, that's awesome. Let's talk more about digital forensics and maybe a little bit of e-discovery at the end, but what are the most common mistakes you think private investigators, attorneys, fraud, examiners make when they're trying to obtain digital evidence?
Robert Fried:
Yeah, the most common mistakes that I've seen is people generally think that to make a forensic copy, it's a simple cut-and-paste out of Windows. You may be meeting with your client, they may show you the computer, and they may say, "All my stuff's here, okay, so let's just make a copy of it. I brought a thumb drive with me today." If they do that, the dates and the times, they change on the files, there's that metadata associated with the files can change, and just in general, you're stepping on potential really important information, depending on the nature of your investigation.
Robert Fried:
There's also a lot of times when people think that forwarding of email messages is also appropriate. Let's say somebody received an email from somebody, now it's a big part of the case, "Hey, I'm going to just forward this to my investigator. I'm going to forward this to my lawyer." When you do that, it's generally speaking okay because email messages are in a container, essentially, they're in an MSG, a PST, an OST, they're always in some kind of container, but the challenge with that is you lose the context between that whole thread of messages around that period of time. If there are more, but it's always good to collect within a date range and not do these individual forwards. It's also not good for chain of custody as well when you do that because you want to have a documented and structured approach.
Robert Fried:
The other thing that always happens is calling upon the expert that needs to come in too late, so you already thought about this. People think about the value add of a forensic examiner coming in or an investigator. But what does that mean? Essentially, the challenge there is you want to engage people relatively soon when an investigation kicks off so that all the relevant information can be preserved, collected in the most defensible and efficient way.
Leah Wietholter:
I know. It's so interesting. In the world of forensic accounting, I kind of feel the same way about being involved a little too late in the game sometimes, and maybe not... Well, yeah, sometimes too late in the game. Just, it's like, "Oh, if only we'd been hired a little sooner, not at the very end of discovery, we could have helped you obtain additional information that would've been good for your side of the case," so yeah, I completely understand that.
Robert Fried:
A lot of the organizations that you and I belong to, we have a good network of special specialists in different areas, right, so it's a matter of knowing to leverage those relationships that you have and the resources that become available with a lot of those organizations. I've become more and more familiar with the different specialties, even within the PI realm, to know that there are other experts out there and it's okay to reach out and to have them on speed dial and to really build good relationships within your network with people so that this way, there's a trust factor that goes beyond just looking somebody up on Google or through other methods.
Leah Wietholter:
What are some reasonable expectations? If I'm a client of yours, what are some reason reasonable expectations from digital evidence collection? I'd like to go through four of them individually, so I'm asking this question four times. First, what's a reasonable expectation from digital evidence collection as it relates to email?
Robert Fried:
We kind of touched on email before when I was saying, "Don't forward." The reality of email is we've gone away from everything being right in front of you. Your servers, your ability to pull directly from, let's say, the systems that everybody's accessing. It went from being on-premise to now being up in the cloud, right, so email collections can take time. That's one of the things that it's beyond our control now because we're relying on Microsoft, we're relying on all these different providers to basically search and allow us to export that data.
Robert Fried:
I think also that retention policies need to be thought about, the fact that some businesses don't retain email for a very long period of time. Email's still very much used, there's billions of emails transmitted and exchanged every year, so a lot of times the burden of the organization to keep those messages for an extended period of time can cause people to delete emails, and that becomes somebody's habit. If there's no retention period, or a legal hold in place, as we call it, then those emails can be gone, and there may be spoliation that becomes an issue down the road in court cases.
Robert Fried:
But I mean, email expectations right now is that sometimes you may find that the emails no longer there, that if it is there, that you want to just be a little bit conscientious about how to collect email. Sometimes a lot of my clients want to get down to the specific emails of interest to do a very targeted collection. I always say do a date-range-based collection versus a keyword-based collection because certain documents don't actually allow you to search them. They're non-searchable, they're non-text-based. Sometimes people scan in PDF documents. Well, those are just PDF documents, or images, they don't have the text associated with them, so there's a lot of caveats there with email.
Leah Wietholter:
If someone has hired you to help them preserve emails and do a search on that, do you provide the hosting platform for them to search that? Or are you collecting, preserving it, and then they have to find a way to open it or review it?
Robert Fried:
Yeah, so the end of the road for email is typically in a document review platform, so we essentially get it back to our lab, we extract out the data, and then we put it into a data processing engine review platform that then basically extracts the email messages, associates, the attachments, and allows for review the tagging and association, and obviously further down the road, the production of that information.
Leah Wietholter:
Okay, great. What are reasonable expectations from digital evidence collection as it relates to social media?
Robert Fried:
Social media is an interesting one, right, because that actually helps us establish a timeline a lot of the times. I always bring up the cases of, for example, somebody's on a Workers' Comp claim, and all of a sudden, you look at their social media, and they're hiking up in the Rockies or the Appalachian Trail and everything else like that, so the expectation is that you have the ability to get a lot of information from it. What information's available to you when you go to somebody's public page versus wanting to look at their private posts and what they're saying in-between their connections, and things like that? What you can get from a private versus public is a lot more. Some people, they use those security restrictions, and so you have to be really conscientious.
Robert Fried:
To get into the private profile, what do you need? You need a username and password. You also need that for your email collections, by the way, as well as now a multifactor authentication code, so you can't just say, "Hey, give me your email address. Hey, give me your Facebook account username and password." Now, they've got to also give you the code to get in with multifactor. What you see on social media, if it's been deleted, is something that we're not really going to be able to pull back because our software actually connects to the backend of the platform and pulls what's live on the system, so that's also key. Don't forget, you can have social media both on your phone and on your computers and other devices.
Robert Fried:
Again, it's the ability to pull from these is based on the compatibility of the software that you're using. This stuff changes all the time. We may be able to collect from Facebook today and Facebook tomorrow is going to have a change that our software is not going to probably be able to support in some ways, so that's a constant chase to keep on top of this and to keep our clients aware and to keep in good graces with our software vendors and providers and partner with them to say, "Please let us know when there's a challenge that we're going to face because we may not be able to get to all that data that we're after," so social media is very dynamic. It's not something that we have a guarantee each day that we're going to have connectivity to that as well.
Leah Wietholter:
In your collection of social media information, two questions on this, one, are you often collecting this data without the subjects' knowledge? Is it more-
Robert Fried:
It depends.
Leah Wietholter:
... It can be both?
Robert Fried:
It depends on what side you are and how cooperative everybody is, right? I mean, there are some cases where they're not going to give you the password, and so what you do is you find the URL or the username associated with the account and you download what you can. There are also situations where two parties, they chat about it and they establish a protocol and they said, "We will allow you access, but you're only going to be able to download from this period of time," so there's all stipulations that you can collaborate with all the different parties on the case to build a level of comfort, right? Everybody's conscientious about what's on their social media platforms and sometimes you have Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn, you name it, and we have to go and seek out all the different types of accounts that people have out there and really set the expectation.
Robert Fried:
The one thing you have to also keep in mind about social media is how do you want to look at that in the end? Do you want to bring this into a courtroom? Do you want to look at the metadata aside from what you're seeing on the screen? Do you want to show the posts and all the replies? Thinking about your deliverable and how you're ultimately going to use this evidence and this information is key in a lot of cases, and I find a lot of people, they don't ask those questions early on, but the format of how you're ultimately going to use this is equally as important as sometimes getting the data because it may not even work out for your case if you're not presenting that data in a way that's compelling either to the jury or whoever's doing the evaluation of the case.
Leah Wietholter:
Yeah, for sure. Have you had any social media accounts, either subpoenaed or required as part of discovery in a case?
Robert Fried:
Oh, yeah. It's more and more the case. I mean, I think it's happening a lot because you have competing businesses, you have intellectual property disputes, you have people that leave organizations, and they post on LinkedIn, "Hey, so excited to be starting my new venture," with an emoji, and the emoji starts getting questioned. What do they mean by using that emoji? Let's collect the account. Let's make sure we preserve all this to show when this was posted and get an idea of the timeline, right? Forensics is all about the reconstruction of the timeline to help build the case.
Leah Wietholter:
Yeah, love that. I was thinking, I don't think any of our cases have required social media accounts as part of discovery or subpoena, but yeah, I'm sure it's just going to become a normal discovery item, especially in divorce, or like you mentioned, corporate disputes.
Robert Fried:
Look at Elon Musk, right? Every time you post something on Twitter, the whole market starts going crazy. If you think about how that impacts, social media impacts the markets now, how it impacts the ability to gain attention and influence out there, there is a lot of that. Twitter's huge for that right now. Instagram is huge for that. I've had cases where people have posted pictures and used pictures inappropriately and basically used it as part of advertising for their corporation. The company, the people found out about it and said, "Hey, don't use my image. I never gave you permission. What's this all about?" Right, so it's becoming more and more prevalent. There's also social media bullying that's going on and cases where that social media post or posts are going to be important for harassment, any kind of conflict that's going on between people, especially in the teenage and tweens, they're on their phones and on social media day and night.
Leah Wietholter:
Yeah, that's definitely an ever-evolving and changing, just the technology, and like you said, all of the way all of these social media networks work and accessing it, so definitely would be keeping me on my toes if I was a digital forensics expert.
Robert Fried:
Yes, absolutely. Absolutely.
Leah Wietholter:
Before we go into the break, I was curious, what types of cases in your career do you think digital forensics has just really played a critical, valuable role?
Robert Fried:
Let me tell you, I was asked this question in 2003 or '04. I was in Joplin, Missouri teaching a class and I got asked this exact question. I was a little bit younger than, but the question, when I thought about it, was, "What types of investigations are there where digital evidence isn't part of it?" I'm going to tell you, it's very rare. In fact, I did an article with Dr. Henry Lee several months back and we showed how forensic concepts are really brought into every investigation, every crime scene, and digital evidence is more and more playing a role in almost every type of case. We were kind of towing with each other because he said, "Well, you're on the digital evidence side. I'm looking at the DNA and the trace evidence on that phone and the fingerprints you can pull and you're looking at the data that's on the phone."
Robert Fried:
Unfortunately, everybody can now say that they have a phone in their hands, and so every case, digital evidence is always sought after and cell phone tower pings and tying to establish where people may have information even on their Fitbits to show their activity around a certain period of time in an area, the GPS aspect of it. My lawn, my sprinkler system is on IoT. My wife was begging me for a new washer and dryer. She's got IoT on the washer and dryer. I get notifications on my phone. People are ingrained with technology in their day-to-day that it would be very rare to find a case where there is no technology involved in something that happens, unfortunately.
Leah Wietholter:
Yeah, totally makes sense. Well, let's take a quick break, and we'll be right back.
Speaker 3:
If you are involved in litigation, or an investigation that deals with digital-based evidence, and it must be identified, preserved, collected, and examined, the book from author, Robert B. Fried, Forensic Data Collections 2.0 is your one-stop resource and your ultimate guide author. Robert B. Fried is senior vice-president and global head of forensics and investigations at Sandline Global. He's a rigorous investigator with tremendous experience performing data collection and forensic investigations of electronic evidence. He shares his more than two decades of experience in his must-read book. Forensic Data Collections 2.0 is also for students, forensic enthusiasts, investigators, attorneys, and legal professionals who want to learn what to expect, or the types of questions to ask. Forensic Data Collections 2.0 is available online at forensicsbook.com and at all major retailers, including Amazon, Walmart, and Barnes & Noble. Order your copy right now, Forensic Data Collections, 2.0 from author Robert B. Fried.
Leah Wietholter:
Welcome back to my conversation with Rob Fried. Rob, okay, on every Investigation Game Podcast episode, just about, we have to ask our experts if they have a favorite case story of some sort of investigation. For you, can you tell us about a favorite case story of successful digital evidence, recovery, or investigation?
Robert Fried:
Yeah, the one that I always love to think about is because we think about where data resides. I'm using a desktop computer right now. It's right in front of me. I save things locally to it. In the background, I've got OneDrive saving files up to the cloud, I use Dropbox, I back up in multiple places. There was one case where we had only one thing from this person, we had his computer, right? The thing is is on the computer, you would think that you would have chat programs, just like Teams and everything else that people are using, but what Apple does is with all their devices, they have Apple for iMac, your iPhone, your iPad. That iMessage, right, is on all your devices. It's basically sprinkling. It was almost like the pop email where you download your email to this computer and to that computer and, oh, you want to log into your email there? All your email gets downloaded.
Robert Fried:
Well, there's the investigation, I'm looking at the computer, and I'm seeing iMessages. Although I didn't have his phone, I'm getting the iMessage communication about how he is reaching out to his buddy in IT about what hard drive he should go pick up at Best Buy later on today to start copying off all these files before he is heading out of the company in a couple of days, so we've got the LaCie hard drive, because it was a Mac, we've got when he was intending to go to Best Buy to purchase it. His girlfriend was in the background saying, "Hey, honey, are you still doing okay at work? You getting ready to move all your stuff off to your own medias?" "Oh, yeah. I'm working on that right now," and then the IT guy is giving support. It just shows you. You may think that iMessage is just on your phone, but it syncs everywhere, so you can continue to communicate to your friends and colleagues or whatever. It just shows you people are just not aware of all these specific things, where their data resides, what kind of footprints and traces of activity they're leaving all over the place, so that was a real big win for the client.
Robert Fried:
Another thing that I was going to mention is I got brought into this the big-box stores and I was dressed in a suit, coming in, I'm from New York, always dressed properly. They thought I was from corporate. I was like, "Oh, no, I should dressed a little bit more down," but the case was, "Come into our environment, take a copy of our entire server where we keep all our videos surveillance, right," and to do a video surveillance job, that is a very memorable job because you have to use your senses, your eyes to actually look at this. You can't rely on automation all the time. It's a manual process to go through hours and hours and hours of video to try to find that one person on a video that's the subject of everything was a very big eyeopener to have a lot of patience to do this work, but also the importance of it. How do you go about kind of deciding where to look and how to look? You look at different timeframes and different snippets of the video.
Robert Fried:
But as you know, we also have to think about how the software actually allows us to view the video clips. There are codex and proprietary formats that you can't just pop this into anything, you have to use potentially that manufacturer of that video surveillance systems system to view it, and that's also not very easy. How this stuff is all saved, it's all proprietary. The folder structure may snippets of information that the software puts back. I've worked on several of those. I always get kind of brought in. I always collaborate with a lot of experts in that area also, but that's one of those cases where I had to sift through thousands and thousands and thousands upon videos, and although we have all this great software, there's still that human element that I always want people to remember. You're still testifying based on your review and your assessment. You just don't spit out the reports and give that to your client. You actually take a look and you do that legwork for them so that they trust that you've looked through all that and you've made a judgment call.
Leah Wietholter:
Right, that's kind of how I feel in the financial, I'm sorry, data analysis world. We have this lovely process that just recently published a book on our data sleuth process, and it's so handy, but it's really still just a tool. You can go and you can run all of the different reports that we recommend, create a macro for each one of them, automate whatever you want, but at the end of the day, there still is going to have to be some conversation with some real human beings and probably some possible email review, social media, other OSINT sources, I mean, to provide some content and context, so yeah, we're not just letting a machine do the work, there is still, I completely agree, the human element, and especially when it comes to testifying.
Robert Fried:
Yep. Congratulations, by the way. I think that's great to try to relate to people that as much software as we use, as much tools that we use, it's a discipline that you're using your years of experience and knowledge and working on these types of cases to look at this the best way possible and really resort to what you know, and sometimes your tools are not going to be able to give you what you're looking for. You need to use some of the old-fashioned ways, unfortunately, looking at it with a really keen eye to understand what's out there and the best way to explain that to your clients, very consultative in the end.
Leah Wietholter:
Right now, we're involved in a case where we started with all of our tools, right, and matching data and doing joints and using idea and all these things. Then we discovered that actually wouldn't work in this case and what is actually going to solve the client's problem is completely rebuilding some account balances from the source documents. There's no fast way of doing that. It's just document after document. That's what it makes me think of when you're talking about the video. We can still have all this technology, but we still have to be critical thinking and problem solvers along the way to help those clients.
Leah Wietholter:
Okay, let's talk about your book. If someone really wanted to learn the ins and outs of digital evidence, I'm curious, where would you recommend starting? I hope that as part of this recommendation list, you're going to tell us about your book, too, but just kind of big picture, how does your book fit into helping somebody learn more about this space, and then what are some other resources you would recommend?
Robert Fried:
Yeah, well, I've already gotten a really special review from somebody from the FBI. I had somebody within the industry within the e-discovery space come to me and say, "Hey, I shared this book with my child and now my child may want to go into forensics, too."
Leah Wietholter:
Oh, that's great.
Robert Fried:
To me, that's the ultimate compliment, right? It's giving people a view of what to expect. I have all these college students, university students, even on the grad level come out and they haven't had a chance to actually touch evidence, to actually understand, "What do I do on day one? How do I go about this?" Because you can study about this in school and you can learn all the theories and Locard's exchange theory and MD5 hashing and metadata, but I tell you what you need to know because when I started in this field, I thought I was getting involved in forensics, and I was told, "We're a need-to-discovery company. Are you okay with that?" I said, "Sure, yeah, that's fine."
Robert Fried:
Day one, everything that I learned in school was kind of out the door. I mean, I learned about crime scenes and everything else, so what I do here is give you an understanding of what e-discovery is, what forensics is, what options you need to think about from a forensic examiner's perspective, from a lawyer's perspective, from a legal professional's perspective, from a PI's perspective. Anybody who picks up this book is going to understand what they need to know and what they need to ask and who they need to speak to.
Robert Fried:
That's why I wrote this, because that was a gap in the industry for a long time. The people that I learned from, or the people that basically formed the discipline of digital evidence, digital forensics, so I took it a step further and said, "Hey, I've been working with corporate companies for 20-plus years and law firms. Let me teach the next generation a little bit about the overall picture, chain of custody, documentation, how that goes into both of the law enforcement public world, private world." My book is out there, it's brand new. It's getting a lot of traction with both the law firm side of it.
Robert Fried:
Where else can you find me? I write for PI Magazine. I write on the cutting edge topics in my Cyber Sleuthing column. I approached Jim and Nicole a couple years ago and said, "I have an idea. I want to write about digital forensics topics on things that PIs need to know. They said that's a great idea. Every issue, I write on those topics that are really important that I keep on top with. I just wrote a thing on a cryptocurrency. I'm writing another one with my interns at Sandline on a lab accreditation, digital forensics lab accreditation, all topics that people want to go to a trusted source, somebody's actually doing the work that can relay the information to them and understand kind of their needs as well from the PI's perspective, but just anybody's perspective. This is important stuff to know. You can go to Robinhood, Coinbase, you can buy crypto now. What do you need to know about crypto? Who do you call, right? I mean, these are all questions.
Robert Fried:
Forensic Focus is another great resource. They're a great website that has a lot of professionals in the industry for a long time that vet the information that goes up there. It's really, really a good resource. EC Council, which you mentioned, I'm part of their board of advisors. I'm doing cyber talks with them continuously. I have one coming up next week, May 13th. That whole organization vets their stuff. Even when I write stuff, they read through it two or three times, but I think the first step is take a look at all those different resources, and see if there's any symposiums that you can go to as well.
Robert Fried:
I just did one with Dr. Henry Lee, people from Cellebrite, Paraben, Cloud9 was there, Forensic Email Collector. I have all these kind of relationships from over the years that we all came together and shared our knowledge for a day. I think the charge on that was $25 for students and $125 for adults and we gave a whole day training. I mean, that's amazing to hear from people that are on the cutting-edge of forensics. Really, we want to encourage the next generation, so we put on these events. I personally sponsored that with Henry Lee and myself and put that whole program together with him, so it was a really neat opportunity.
Leah Wietholter:
Well, it's so great to meet professionals like yourself that are willing to share from experience and provide practical hands-on, "This is how you do it." That's really refreshing. I just really appreciate your time, Rob, today, taking time to talk with me.
Robert Fried:
[inaudible 00:34:48].
Leah Wietholter:
If any of our less listeners would like to connect with you or learn more about your book, what are the best ways to do so?
Robert Fried:
Sure. You can find me on LinkedIn. I think my profile name is Robert B. Fried, F-R-I-E-D. You can look at my book's website forensicsbook.com. I still don't understand how I got that website address. You can also email me at rfried, R-F-R-I-E-D @ sandlineglobal.com, S-A-N-D-L-I-N-E-G-L-O-B-A-L dot com, and also rob@robfried.com, if you just want to reach out to me in general and ask me questions. Happy to always be of help.
Leah Wietholter:
Well, great. Well, Rob, it's been a pleasure and we'll make sure to link to your contact information and your book website in the show notes. Thank you so much.
Robert Fried:
Excellent. Thank you so much. Great to be here today.
Leah Wietholter:
Thank you for listening to The Investigation Game Podcast. For more information on any of the topics brought up on this show, visit workmanforensics.com. If you enjoyed our show, please be sure to subscribe and leave a review. You can also connect with us on any social media platform by searching Workman Forensics. If you want to learn more about using data and forensic accounting engagements and fraud investigations, make sure to check out my book, Data Sleuth, available on Amazon or anywhere else you like to buy your books.